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Simple Changes to improve the game (idea 1)
MithrilCoat
#1 Posted : Saturday, March 30, 2013 9:56:12 AM
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John,
I wanted to open up some discussion with you and the other players about what to do to make Oubliette a better game. As it stands right now, Oub is a good game. I think with some relatively minor changes you could push it over the top into a great game. I have hundreds of notes jotted down, and too many ideas to discuss in this format, but I have attempted to group them into 3 main ideas:

Make it easier for new players to get started


The hardest and most frustrating moments of this game (for me at least) were the first few levels. Running out of cash, resting in the streets for weeks and weeks, trying to advance my newly rolled chars, trying to figure out the game mechanics... it was a lot of negative energy going on. I was motivated to play, so I pushed thru it. I imagine that most folks get frustrated, delete the free app and move on. So my question is... "Why does it have to be so hard/frustrating at the beginning of the game?" Here are a few quick and easy to implement (I hope) ideas to reduce newbie angst:

1) Improve the starter party -- It is nice that you have provided some pre-made chars. What is not so nice is that too many of them are borderline useless.

Gilmor -- raise dex from 5 to 10
Santhil -- raise con from 13 to 15, start with 10 hits instead of 7.
Aiwendil -- raise int from 13 to 16, raise dex from 12 to 15.
Gurunk -- raise str from 19 to 23, raise dex from 11 to 13

as you can see, most of my suggestions are designed to increase dex because the starting party is too slow.

2) Use the starting party to teach basic elements of the game...Write into the tutorials a brief blurb that discusses experience parameters. Make one of the original hirebrands an orc. When he makes level, have the tutorial pop up explaining why some chars level up faster than others. If you set his age high enough, that char will be useful to also explain (via a tutorial pop up) what happens to aging chars as well. He will make it easier for a new player to get started, but will have minimal long term effect on the game. For the same reason, change Salamar (the sage) into an Elf, and vastly improve his stats. When you write the tutorial pop ups, you can draw attention to the fact that while the orc hirebrand has less going for him than Salamar, he will level up much faster. When the aging pop up occurs, again you can use it to point out that the hirebrand's days are numbered and Salamar's days are not.

3) Provide the initial party with an item they can sell for a reasonable amount of cash. I am thinking of something in the fairly modest price range, and not terrible useful to the party. Perhaps put a Dagger + 2 on one of the mages. Then when the player's gold drops to >50, have another tutorial pop up suggesting that the store is a good way to raise some cash, and that perhaps the mage really doesn't need his dagger, since he isn't likely to be fighting much anyhow. This kills two birds with one stone -- provides cash to help minimize the endless resting in the streets problem (I mean its not really much fun to rest week after week after week after week after week...) and gives you a teachable moment to utilize.

4) My last idea most likely falls into the realm of a coding change, but I include it in the off chance you want to incorporate it in a future version. Create a "level 1-2 monster buffer" in the first few squares around the city steps. I recall very clearly my first trip to the dungeon. One step, 8 Ogres, and I had chars dropping like flies. Again, I was motivated to restart and try again... other players might just walk away. Give the new players a few rooms that they can't encounter the level 4,5,6 monsters, and write it up in the tutorial.
John Gaby
#2 Posted : Sunday, March 31, 2013 9:32:30 AM
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You make some good suggestions. I am not too crazy about changing the starting party. The whole point of the starting party is to make it possible to play the game 'out of the box'. The original DOS version of the game did not provide a starting party, and initially I did not. However upon testing I discovered that it is actually very challenging to get a party started with only level 1 characters (have you ever tried that?) and I decided that the learning curve required was simply too great, hence the starting party. However it was always my intention that the starting party was just there to get you going and learn the game. I always imagined that you would want to replace all of the characters with characters of your own choosing.

Providing more 'tutorial' screens would not be a bad idea but I am not sure when/if I can find the time to do that.

I believe that I solved the problem of gold at the beginning in version 2.x (or at least make it better). In the first release of Oubliette, I actually started the party out with a considerable amount of gold to compensate for the fact that there was not much gold to be found on the upper levels. However, what I found was that people simply used up all their gold quickly resting in the best hotels and then they were screwed because they could not replace that gold. (Note that your idea about providing an expensive item that you could sell would have the same issue) So I changed it so that if your gold reserves are below a certain level, your chances of finding treasure is greatly increased.

It would indeed require code changes to provide a safe buffer zone around the stairs, but since most of the directions you take from the initial stairs lead to halls, the chances for encounters like the one you experienced is greatly reduced (you just ran into a bit of bad luck). I am not sure that providing a safe haven would be all that useful anyway. The problem is that you got wiped out in your first encounter. Whether that happened on the first step, or after you had take 10 steps would really make no difference. A better approach might be to guarantee that the first 'n' encounters the new player gets are relatively easy (e.g. limit the number of monsters that can appear).

MithrilCoat
#3 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 11:50:21 AM
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John,
my suggestion wasn't aimed that a player would chose to run the starting party forever. Perhaps the "numbers" I put into my response are too large... but the intent was that the beefy guys up front have so little dex that the monsters are swinging as often (if not more) than they do. The pace of the game (for a new player) is most likely a discouragement. Do I want you to set up superstar chars in the starter pack? No. Do I feel that what you have given is too slow to be useful. Yes. Do I feel that free app users that are just taking a gander at the game get a skewed view because of the starter party -- absolutely.

While it is not a terrible problem, gold at the beginning is still an issue. I sold some potions. I stripped and sold the gear from one of the fighters. I only rested to regain spells and make levels. I thought I was being careful, but I was still critically low on gold, until I found my first axe+1 which I sold for 7K. After that, it was pretty much smooth sailing. It was the first dozen trips down to the dungeon, that were the worst. I didn't find a box until the sixth trip, so all I was doing was spending cash with nothing coming in. It didn't take too long to reach resting in the streets desperation. Sitting there, resting week after week trying to recover a few used spells wasn't much fun. So in trying to figure out why more people aren't playing this game, I cam upon the idea of people trying the free app and getting discouraged and quitting. Perhaps I am off in left field.
Snafaru
#4 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 6:26:10 PM
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The Dagger +2 idea with the accompanying tutorial popup is a pretty good idea to help the new players. I have practically no difficulty surviving early levels if I equip my fighter-type characters with short swords due to the the fact that it gives 2 attacks per swing, it makes a huge difference, then again, if a new player doesn't know that then he is a lot more likely to suffer and quit the game, my suggestion therefore is to give all the starting party characters that can use it a short sword. Accompany that with a tutorial popup that mentions that some weapons give more than one attack per round.
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